Cuban Rejects

I'm probably going to sound like an asshole here, but I really don't care.

You're 18 years old and you're telling people what is and what isn't a cigar?

I'm cracking up over here. Thank you for this moment of comedy.

To me, this entire post was a lengthy "I don't know what the hell I'm talking about". And no, I'm not just basing that on your age...

for the record, I didn't delete your comment.

Get off your high horse...

Wow... you are one ARROGANT little hypocritical shit!

Instead of explaining yourself, all you managed to do is insult anyone who you deem to be lower than you and is not willing to spend what you believe is an acceptable amount of money on a cigar.

When I initially saw your previous post, I thought it stank of trolling and left it be. But after seeing your "explaination," I read the comments in the "Cuban Rejects" thread and caught up. You make a key claim that is apparently speculation on your part (use of "probably" implies as such)... a claim that is shot down by two others. Seems readily obvious that you did not do your homework before opening your mouth, Mr. "please by no means act like you know what your talking about."

You wondered why you asked a question like 'does anyone smoke good cigars anymore.' People smoke what they enjoy. If it happens to be a cheaper cigar, then so be it. Are you ripping on people because they prefer a Budweiser over an expensive German import? At my cigar shop, one of the regulars loves his little $2 La Finka's, which are super cheap cigars. Do we look down on him because that is his particular taste? No... it's just what he happens to like and enjoy! And for the price point, they're a good smoke.

There are many little lesser known gems out there, and there are many nasty cigars who are far too expensive for the quality smoke they wind up delivering. Price should not be a primary factor in choosing your preferred cigar(s), as that is not an accurate indicator of whether you will enjoy it or not. I'm reminded of what Benicio Del Toro once said during a magazine interview in his hotel room, where he also happened to be eating pizza. He went on a tangent talking about how one can go out and buy a $40 world-class steak, only to be beaten by a good $4 slice of pizza. Price isn't everything.

Finally, I REALLY do not appreciate that you ripped on this whole community with your inflamatory statement about people only asking "ridiculous questions" here. It only takes 5 minutes to look back at the last few months of posts, to see that posts here are of a much higher quality and are not filled with your "ridiculous questions." And what is wrong with asking a newbie question anyway? Everyone has to start somewhere, but your elitist attitude is NOT the kind of attitude we need around here to help welcome and educate new smokers about our shared pasttime.

If you find the quality of discussion here in this community to be beneath you, then why are you still here?

Now, I'm gonna start off with a little fandom about my favorite cigar brand. Since I started smoking cigars (which, I will admit hasn't been too long, but long enough to set up a nice humidor along with my own room for it in my house) I've been a Ozgener family fan.

But it sounds like you're taking it a little to....monitarily. jokerswild3983 Just happened to be walking through his store when he saw it and decided to try it. He tried it, and he liked it. He took the risk (which, wasn't much) and like it. Don't make him less of a person because he did. That just shows your snobbery.

I did my own work. Cigar Magazine rated them fairly high from what I've seen. (Although, hold that to whatever you choose...I don't have cannon evidence.) And stated they were handmade sandwich Nicaraguans.

"Even when I was 17 years old working 20 horus a week I still managed to smoke AT LEAST an AVO."

Buddy, that was last year.

You show up here, like you're some straight up aficionado downing people for their opinions and taste. And in my own opinion? That sucks.

I don't wonder why you ask the question why does anyone smoke good cigars. I don't wonder cause you're an asshole about it. Don't tell someone that they aren't classy when you can't even spell.

Damn right I'm gonna disagree all I want. And I'm gonna give you a piece of advice. Don't come here thinking that you are all slick as glass and telling this cozy little internet community what's cool or classy. It's a hobby. People try different things all the time.

Maybe you need to find yourself another internet outlet for your smoking pleasure. The only blunt thing around here is your head. People have to start somewhere, and by asking questions of your peers, you learn.

It's all about having an open mind, and enjoying yourself. But please, by no means, act like you know what your talking about.

Like, seriously...kay?

of course that was last year, but thats not the point. The point was I was 17!

And I'm sorry if I offended you, that wasn't my intention.

well, take it all with a grain of salt. They're gangsters/rappers/"homies" who think Dutchmasters are fine cigars.... everybody has their view of a "good" cigar.

What I mean to say, is "hey, who cares". While you're laughing at them, somebody who thinks Davidoff's are crap, is probably laughing at you cause he smokes better cigars than you.

While I am also HUGE fan of the CAO line and smoke mostly cigars in that price/quality range I think to myself "hey, at least he's smoking cigars and not protesting. Anyone who smokes cigars is an allie in that respect.

And hey, i'm a young'n too. If somebody (with decent intellect) says "try this $1.50 cigar, it's pretty decent" then why not? Granted most cheap cigars are dog rockets there was one time when these $2.75 cigars (for a churchill) blew cigars costing 5 times that out of the water. I learned that from a friend who wouldnt spend much on cigars so he bought cheap ones. So now I have a pile of them sitting next to macanudos and partagas's in my humi. Why? because they are good.

I could say you get what you pay for. But in the cigar world that's a pretty shakey statement. There's way to many overpriced/overhyped cigars out there for sure.

I'll just say smoke what you like. It's your money.

Me personally I prefer to spend more of my disposible income, and my modest collection reflects that.

But I also say to these people who smoke >2$ cigars...go out and buy a Fuente Hemingway or chateau sungrown, and you might just be pleasantly surprised.


As far as the poster goes, I'm not gonna jump on his back about anything, except it seemed like he was dogging on cigars from Nicuragua which is baseless because there are definatly some good cigars comming from there, Padron to name one.

Before you start going off on your Nicaraguan humanitarian speech, you might want to do a little more research. There are a TON of excellent cigars that come out of Nicaragua. That includes four or five types of your beloved CAO. But, of course, a true aficianado such as yourself knew that already, right? You were just makin a funny cuz you give your money to the Nicaraguans too! Oh, and Nicaragua isn't in South America...

Furthermore, as far as your statement about how cigar smokers have traditionally been high-class folk... you should, again, do some more research before you start flapping your lips. If we want to follow tradition, especially American tradition, cigar smokers were traditionally just about anyone. Ever seen a cheroot? Yeah, that's where your stuffy, upper-crust cigars originated. Take a look at what kind of people smoked those.

This community isn't here for people to look down their noses at others. If you don't like the questions people are asking here, then leave.

Of course I know that CAO comes from Nicaragua. So does Padron, H. Upman, as well as half the best cigars in the world are binded with Nicaraguan Tobacco. The point I was making is that because they get so few profit from them, they have to make alot to make any money, let alone pay employees, hence making them overproduced.

I am in total agreement with everyone here. This is just a genererally snobbish post. Anyone who smokes the brand they smoke just to look big, are superficial. Granted, I have smoked many a variety of cigar in my young span as a rookie aficionado ( everyone has to start somewhere ) spanning from CAO, to Edge, all the way to a variety of $20-$30 sticks, but I do this out of exploration, much like what jokerswild3983 has done, and personally I applaud him for his daring exploration and thank him for his kindness to share his experience with us.

_________________________________________

Now granted I like to stick with the CAO Flavors : Moontrance because I happen to like the flavor of Bourbon Vanilla. But what you are doing here is downright offensive. You are mocking peoples personal tastes for what? To attempt and prove that just because you can smoke an AVO that you are by definition better then someone else cause they happen to stumble upon a stick that A: they like and B: is fairly economical.

In the end, all that matters... and this goes for your liquors, clothes, cars, the gas you put in said car, right down to the drinks ( soda, water etc... ) you imbibe on a daily basis.... ALL THAT MATTERS IS WHAT TASTES GOOD TO YOU.

This is how the system breaks down. It isnt personal standing, it isnt about trying to prove yourself in the local cigar lounge... It is about personal comfort.

I tsk you for such a snobbish and disrespectful post.

Nuff' said.

It wasn't meant to be offensive, and I'm sorry it appeared that way. It was a late night post filled with angst.

And the AVO wasn't a name drop, but if someone offered you an Avo or a Cuban Reject, which would you take? For 7 bucks more, you can buy an Avo, that was the point I was trying to illustrate.

At 18, you don't have the experience nor developed palate to even consider dictating taste. So you found that C.A.O.s are good looking sticks and you can impress your friends by smoking a cigar that cost around $5. I'm glad for you. Try different things, and not just cigars. You're not old enough to drink, so I won't advocate you trying them with various liquors, wines or beers. But do try different brands with different foods. Yes a steak is good, and a maduro goes pretty good after. But then there's the Don Thomas vintage Candella that just rocks after a dinner of a big salad, or seafood ravioli in white sauce.

As other's have done, here's a little bit of educational material for you. Nicaragua is a major cigar manufacturing country. The cigar industry there is bigger than Cuba in it's hayday. It's also a major tobacco growing nation. The crop spanning everything from sun grown to shade grown, top growth to mature lower leaf. The soil and climatic conditions rival those of Cuba, allowing the expatriated Cuban's the closest thing to home for growing, harvesting, curing, and rolling.

Now let's go to the cigars themself. First, a good roller doesn't take an hour to roll a cigar. Hell there would be no profit in cigars at all, or the price of a "cheap" cigar would make Greycliffs look down right affordable. Nope, a good roller takes about 5 minutes per stick. And speaking of rollers, they are always training new rollers, and they have to practice. So, "rejects" are usually just that, rejected by the major labels because they're not perfect. Why aren't they perfect? Because the apprentice rollers haven't the skill needed to make them perfect yet, and even an experienced roller will occassionally make a mistake. That's also why they're unbanded, the major labels don't want their name associated with anything less than perfect. So they could be C.A.O., AVO, Drew Estates or any of the others, just not labeled as such.


So, like other's have stated, don't be looking down on them just because they're not as expensive as something else. Face it, I could be scoffing at you for smoking cheap C.A.O.s at $5 - 7 each when I smoke Zino's at $15 - 20 a stick. But then again, I also enjoy Dominican Delights (cherry) at half buck a piece. Its a mood thing, and what I feel will compliment whatever else I'm eating or drinking at the time.

Pardon me, but I don't impress my friends with cigars, trust me, I'm already impresive on several different realms.

And also, for the record, I've had about 3 cigars a week since my 17th birthday, comming up on my 19th birthday. I currently live in Sydney, Australia, where drinking age is 18, and only Cuban Cigars are imported. So as far as you telling me I haven't developed a palate, thats just wrong. I've smoked ALOT of stuff, and I know what I like, what I don't like, and what in general shouldn't be smoked.

I'm aware Nicaragua makes a shit load of cigars, I wasn't downing the credability. I mentioned names in my post like CAO which are made in Nicaragua. Half the best cigars are either made there or filled with binder from there, including Padron, Rockey Patel, and La Flor Dominica.

At 18, you don't have the experience nor developed palate to even consider dictating taste.

Don't patronize the guy, eh?

Wow...how wrong you are my friend. You equate high price with quality and you don't respect other smoker's personal tastes.

I happen to agree somewhat, it is a bit frustrating to find so much concentration on the low end of cigars on this community. I don't mind people taking that angle on it, but if this group descends into how great White Owl and Swisher Sweets are, I do think it's a bit of a problem.

The great thing about cigars is you can advocate by gifting cigars to people to get them to see the light. Unfortunately, a lot of them will smoke half of a $6 cigar and then immediately light up a cigarette.

Being a fan of things outside the mainstream in music and movies and elsewhere, I understand where the frustration comes from. People like crap. Unfortunately, I don't know a way to stop being pissed off about it.

and by no means did I mean to come off as attacking you. Your post didn't upset nearly as much as the others in the past.

And my shoes are made in the United States. I don't support the sweat shop industry, as far as I know, and I usualy make it a point to make sure of that.

You are not getting out of this that easy...

(Deleted and reposted with corrected markup code... )

Pardon me, but I don't impress my friends with cigars, trust me, I'm already impresive on several different realms.

Thank you. You just proved my very first statement in my first comment.


Your post didn't upset nearly as much as the others in the past.

First, I'm going to assume that in your incomplete sentence, your reference to "the others in the past" is referring to other posts that you have deemed as being ridiculous and below you.


while you rave to an internet community on how good they are.

Everytime someone posts on this community, it's some rediculous question. Like, "Why do some cigars have wood tips on them."

And you wonder why I ask a question like, does anyone smoke good cigars anymore.

I wish to challenge you to point out other posts in this community, which have "upset" you. What post(s) in this community, have caused you such "angst," that forced your hand to write what you wrote? I want to know exactly which posts in say, the past 3 months, contain these "ridiculous questions" which you seem to think do not belong in this community. How many "ridiculous questions" were posted compared to the total number of "quality posts?"

I DARE YOU, to put your precious money where your mouth is and back up your statements deriding the quality of this community. Explain to us why you are right, and everyone else who left comments, is wrong. Share with the whole community why you implied that the quality of discussion and dialogue here is trash.

Re: You are not getting out of this that easy...

Fucking A, does anyone have a sense of humor any more? You can't take jokes about me being impressive when clearly people despise for disagreeing with peoples taste, i mean fuck off dude i said if that was your thing, go for it.

And wow, correcting peoples grammar on live journal, that’s real fucking brilliant, your a real pioneer there Copernicus. Want me to point out your unnecessary use of a comma? Sorry if I don't run all my late night live journal posts through a spell checker like you oh great one.

And when have I said in the last 3 months? Jesus, what do i have to prove to you? People talking about putting cigars in refrigerators, asking about wood tips, and raving about cherry flavored blunts, just to name a couple.

I don't know what your deal is bro, but grow the fuck up. So we disagree over TOBACCO. Better get supper defensive about it.

Re: You are not getting out of this that easy...

First, I was not correcting your grammar. If you actually read what I wrote, I'm making clear what I believed you meant to say, and communicate what assumptions I was working under as I wrote the rest of my reply. This was done to ensure that there would be no misunderstandings about how I interpreted your statement and my response as such. Obviously, this was lost on you anyway.


Now, the problem here is not a lack of a sense of humor. Nor is it agreeing to disagree about personal tobacco preferences, which you've already proven that you are incapable of doing anyway. Did I even mention cigars, tobacco, or personal choices in my last comment? Nope.


The problem here is that you've made a number of uneducated, generalized statements that were not founded on any factual information. You made an inaccurate assertation that was quickly disproven. Then you made a number of statements which you presented as factual first-hand knowledge, but were purely speculative on your part. These were also quickly dismantled by other members of this community.

I ignored those.

What I could not ignore, were your elitist, arrogant statements regarding the quality of discussion in this community. What I was attempting to address in my previous comment, were your blanket statements which implied that the members of this community were somehow below you due to the "ridiculous" nature of topics that have been brought up for discussion here.

Look at it this way. You walked into a high-class Italian restaurant filled with regulars. You took a cursory look at the menu and saw that the items were extremely inexpensive, despite the high-class nature of the restaurant. But instead of leaving, or politely inquiring as to why things were so inexpensive, you began loudly mouthing off about the apparent poor quality of food present and insulting the patrons for their terrible taste. You pissed off a large number of people, who are collectively far more knowledgeable than you, and corrected all of your unfounded assertations. Then you attempted to hide behind the claim that your insults were simply a joke. That is rather childish behavior.

Question: when you met your associate Shane, did he deride you if you asked simple newbie questions? What would you do if a new patron walked into the shop, and began asking questions so they too could learn more about cigars? Would you treat them the same way as you are treating this community? Would Shane treat you the same way if you wished to learn more?


The sad thing is that I saw your latest post to the community, and was about to leave a comment actually thanking you for trying to explain yourself and be mature about this situation. But then I saw this reply, and now realize that you're quite undeserving of that recognition.

Do yourself a favor. Check your emotions, angst, and pride at the door, take a few steps back, re-read what has been written here, and try to listen and reflect on what has been said to you. Try thinking through what you wish to say, instead of running your mouth off. With each progressive comment you have made, you've only made yourself look worse. You CLAIM that this was a joke, but it obviously wasn't taken that way. It'd be in your best interest to try and figure out why your delivery was so pathetic and universally misunderstood, so you won't repeat it. Maybe then, hell will freeze over, and you will realize that it is you who needs to grow up and behave more like an adult.

"My admiration from the Cuban Rejects comes not from an ill-conceived notion that I've found a gold mine of premium made cigars at lunatic prices, but that there exists cigars which offer a pleasant smoke for under a buck.."

And that is exactly their purpose..exactly why they were made. :)